These Keep Getting Better- Yet More Reader Response.

Heh, I know that by making this page, I'd be getting agreement in addition to putting my hand in the fire...
Got these several letters... I swear, I am getting damn good feedback from you folks. Let it all out. Go, on. You know you want to. You'll be totally anonymous and you can tell the world about the corrupt, screwed-up chick currently plaguing your existence... or perhaps tell me that I'm a loopy arse-monkey who needs to sod-off into oblivion. I know you've all got at least one good story... or maybe you have at least one harsh opinion of me that you don't want to keep to yourself. In fact, I've already responded to the most common Criticism.

Bring it on!

BraveSirRobin Wrote this: it was titled '...damn...'

The subject title represents my disappointment at finally losing my struggle to retain my sense of chivalry and morals towards women. This isn't a bad thing though, since now I'm finally free to realize a universal truth that my friend's brother once told me: chicks like jerks. I tried to deny this truth when I first heard it, (Yeah, counter-intuitive, innit? Next thing you know, women will be wearing hats on their feet. -- NG) but its hard to ignore it when it happens all around you (I'm in highschool).

My story is about this one former friend, whom I actually had a thing for, and she is a total bitch now that I look back on what transpired between us. The girl is a strong 7 in my book. She's exactly my type: nice legs and everything else. What really got me in the end though were her eyes, which were sort of green mixed with blue. She wasn't perfect, but she was still hot.

Basically, here's what happened:

I had known her for a year but hadn't talked to her much. However, future circumstances led her to sit next to me in some of my classes. It was kind of uncomfortable for me since I'm shy, but her goddamned behavior didn't help. She flirted with me often. She'd say she loved me, write it down, touch me, etc. Me, having low self-esteem, knew it was all too good to be true. It was torture for me to see her everyday. (Ah. A cock-tease. -- NG)

Now, I'm not trying to sound vain, but I consider myself a niceguy. I treat women very respectively (but I'm not too uptight) and with a level of devotion and loyalty. I open doors, I do favors, etc. I've even been occaisionally posessed by the spirit of Captain FreeTherapist. The only (actually, the most important of many) things is I need to start working out.

Anyways, a little later, she gets a boyfriend, even she would bitch at me every damn day about how she 'wasn't ready for a relationship' and 'had bad luck with guys'. On top of that, she would describe to me exactly how she want's her dream guy to be: sensitive, caring, romantic, kind, etc. But, wouldn't you know it, her boyfriend turns out to be crude, insensitive, a womanizer, and a jerk that 'makes her cry everytime they talk'. Those were her exact words. After that, those words from my friend's brother kept echoing in my head like a chant: chicks like jerks. (Chant? More like a mantra. -- NG) This was truly bad for my sense of morals because I was truly nice to her and fit damn near every fucking description that she gave out. Now I have to put up with her annoying hypocritical ass for a few more years.

Post Script: Seemingly just to add another kick in the balls for me, it turns out that my best friend liked her alot too. He's even more kind, sensitive and romantic than I am/was. He even had more guts than me and asked her to be in a relationship. She said no and gave him that tired defensive reply of 'I'm not ready for a relationship'. 2 weeks later she got that formentioned boyfriend. Fuck!!

Post Post Script: Probably THE most frustating experience was brought on me by this girl. She was pretty bright, but had trouble in school. During the 2nd to last week of school, she asks me a favor, to tutor her for her Final exam. The exam could potentially pull her out of F-land, if she Aces it. I, being led by my *ahem* short sword and my own sense of niceness, decide to help her cram for the test. (No ulterior motives, eh? -- NG) Now, my personal least favorite task is to teach. I can't stand teaching (I have poor patience for it). To me, its like nails on a chalkboard for eternity, more or less.

So, I go and help her out. Every minute of helping her is like having to cut off a finger, very slowly. I was fighting with myself to resist blushing while trying to restrain my hands from grabbing the nearest throat and strangling it.

The day of the test, she flakes out and misses the exam. She can't make it up either. I was a hairs breadth from strolling into the classroom with an AK-47 (not that I condone violence either, so, just kidding). (I don't condone violence, but I suggest the AKM derivative of the AK-47. It has more recoil compensation. -- NG)

The real bitter ending to this is that I was enough of a sucker to do this AGAIN, for another exam she needed to pass. Me, being uncharacteristically optimistic, didn't think she'd pull the same crap twice. She does. (Ahh yes... and thusly, pulling her proverbial chestnuts out of the fire becomes a routine. -- NG)

Post Post Post Script: I agree with you that American women suck. I'm getting the hell out of this country as soon as I can. I'm seriously considering going to either Japan or some other country where feminism actually means equality. Anyway, thanks for listening to my rant. Anyway, good luck in your future endeavors NiceGuy.

(Aww, thanx. -- NG)

SeverStal Writes:

I'm so glad to have stumbled across your site (a link was posted in the off-topic section of a BMW forum I frequent often).  I have to say, I read your articles and can see myself in them.  Like you, I am highly intelligent (thought not as highly educated; for a variety of reasons, college beyond my sophomore year has not as of yet been in the cards for me), speak multiple languages, and am a nice guy scorn too often by females.  I have known the pain of rejection and unrequited attraction too many times.  I have become quite accustomed to the friend zone and am often called on to be Captain FreeTherapist. (Grin. Thankless job, innit? On top of that, the pay stinks. -- NG)  On those rare occasions when it seems that there is someone out there who actually cares about me and/or enjoys spending time with me, I find out, in fact, that I am being used.  

In reading one of your articles, Getting Lucky in a bar. Sort of, it brought a chuckle to my face, as a very similar incident which happened to me two weekends ago.  A bunch of my fellows from the local chapter of the afore mentioned BMW forum got together for some dinner, the half of us went to go watch some street races in Metropolis X while the other half went to a bar in Metropolis Y; (I think those are in the same area code as Anytown, U.S.A. -- NG) I was with the bar group (mostly because a couple of the guys knew the bouncer, so my underaged ass not only could get in, but didn't have to pay -- 'bout time for a guy, right?).  So, after a night of rejection upon rejection and poor dancing, we decide to head out.  I was actually the only one getting shot down by the ladies; several other members of our group had great success that evening, but those of course were the macho, rich guys who will sleep with anything. (It's kind of fun to watch them sometimes... Just pour liquor into 'em, and watch 'em leap into homo-erotic frat-boy games like 'Ookie Cookie'. -- NG)  Anyway, back to exiting from the bar- As we are walking out, a rather attractive young lady, I'm going to venture to say a solid 8, stands-up from her bar stool grabs me by the throat and proceeds to make out with me for a few minutes until her male friend decided enough was enough.  So, I get outside, and just sorta play it off, and none of my friends believe me (my strike out ratio is quite well known).  So, moments after they shrug off my story, the young lady and her companions exit.  At this point, one of my closer friends (who actually witnessed this) told me one of her friends told him it was her twenty first birthday.  So, I see her staggering in my direction, obviously already forgotten who I am, but I tell her happy birthday anyways.  She asks how I knew. I explained, and as fortune would have it, a street vendor comes by, selling flowers (two roses for $5, what a deal!), so I buy her two roses.  She thanks me, but before she can finish saying thank you, she's all over me again. (Heh, pour a bit of liquor in her, and watch her try to molest the nearest coat-stand. -- NG) We kiss, she directs my hands to where she wants them to go, gets what she -- ah hem-- wanted, then is led off by her friends.  I asked her what her name was as she walked away, she tells me her first name, like that does me any good.  I start to think, what if I had been drunk and groping her, and had forced her hands down my pants?  Duh, I'd be in jail.  She in no way had to be accountable for her actions. (Nope. Not one bit. You have you control yourself, of course. It's the law. Female sexuality is far more precious than yours, you incestuous, lecherous hog of a male. You have to respect her body, she doesn't have to give a damn about yours. -- NG)  Not that I'm complaining, as this is the most action I've had with a female in a while, but still, it's ignorant as hell.  

More serious examples of women using me, a female using me in order to get into higher society clubs and functions; by leading me on and thinking she was interested in me for me, she gained access to a new social circle and took advantage of my generosity (bought her a pair of $900 earrings because she didn't have any that matched her dress for a several hundred dollar a plate dinner I was invited to gratis).  This caused me to not trust girls.  Dreaded example number 2 caused me to not even want to see them for several months.  She was the best: loved cars, wasn't book smart but was witty and sharp, was fun to be around, and was very caring and sweet.  She had me eating out of the palm of her hand, I was willing to give up whatever it took to be with her.  Then she cheated on me, but she was sorry, so I forgave her (don't trust women anyways, so I expected it in a way, no big deal).  Then she starts to drift away and we don't speak for awhile because of some petty argument.  She comes back spouting to me exactly what I wanted to hear and what I wanted to say to her.  Well, things are going well again, and then bam, cheats on me again, and before we get a chance to resolve this, she wants to part amiably and as friends, because she loves me too much to keep hurting me.   What kind of sense does this make? (Hmmm, about as much sense as women normally make. Zilch. -- NG)

Anyways, those are my stories.  Women suck, but I can't help but still desire their company.  Good luck in Japan, and great job for articulating what all nice guys feel.

(Aww, thanks... -- NG)

Will writes:

>I just read your website and let me tell you, man you are fucked in the head. If women suck so badly, then why do you want to be "friends" with them in the first place. You're so nice and grating at them that you really start to get on their nerves. You take away the challenge and hence you take away the fun. You're not their "friend", your their sucker. Nobody
will ever fall in love with somebody that they don't respect.

Dating really is supposed to be about a challenge. Sure, women want to find a mate, etc. but they want to find the right one. They want to know that there man is wanted by 100s of women and that after going to the trouble of learning about all of them, they chose the right one. If you come off as desperate or center your life upon them the moment you meet then it looks like you don't want her, you want any woman. Every woman wants to be seen as special. Your not giving her that opportunity to. Sure she can have you but its a very hollow victory. The one that she wants is the one that challenges her. Do you play or watch sports? How would you feel if you trained for weeks for a big game and then the other team forfeits? Sure, you won but its a very empty victory. You feel much better when you have to work for it. The challenge is there. The other team is good. In the end you win on a last second shot. Thats a victory that you'll savor forever. By giving yourself up every woman so quickly, you ruin the opportunity for one woman to feel really special about winning you in the end.

You can still be nice and get women. Just don't be too accessible. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. What is your favorite song? Do you know the feeling that you get when you hear a song that you really like on the radio. It feels great to hear it. Now go buy that CD and force yourself to listen to it 200 times in a row. By the end, its nauseating and you just want it to go away. Well, that is exactly how women feel about guys showing them affection. They love to get it but only in small quantities.

Next time you meet a girl that you like, don't call her immediately. Wait a couple of days. When you take her out on the first few dates, be a perfect gentleman. Do good things, have a good time, but don't act like her boyfriend or that your in love with her. Let that come when you know that she is the right person. Realize off the bat that she is probably not the right person. Thats OK if she says it or you do. Just keep trying again. Don't commit yourself to anybody until you both realize its time to. Its not cheating to try out a couple of new ones at the same time. Don't lie and don't go into details but accept the fact that you are dating more than one at a time and so is she. When you have the right one, she'll let you know. I used to be a friend/sucker but now women flock to me. I know they always say its not you its me, but trust me, dude, its you.

Boy, ain't that an attempt at a kick in the pants?

My response...

Thanks for writing...

>I just read your website and let me tell you, man you are fucked in the head.

Yeah, I know... innit cool? *Mad cackle*

>If women suck so badly, then why do you want to be "friends" with them in the first place.

Having female friends can enrich one's life occasionally. I make it a policy to cultivate as many friends as possible, regardless of gender. I also hoped that I might one day get a more fulfilling relationship with a girlfriend if I was "friends first". Silly me for swallowing that ripe hogwash.

You're so nice and grating at them that you really start to get on their nerves. You take away the challenge and hence you take away the fun. You're not their "friend", your their sucker.

Yeah, I can't disagree. I have to say that I've slowly learned that over the years. Get on their nerves? Hmm, I find that assertion odd because they willingly choose to be around me. Typically, you don't select a companion who gets on your nerves.

Nobody will ever fall in love with somebody that they don't respect.

I'm not so sure about that... as a general rule, women generally don't respect men at all. I've seen how my sister treats her husband, she acts like the guy can't make his own decisions. Yet, she loves him dearly. "Oh, but I love him and I'll put-up with the poor idiot. I have to lead him around by his pee-pee because he can't take care of himself." That aint respect, it's contempt, almost. *Shrug* go figger.

Dating really is supposed to be about a challenge. Sure, women want to find a mate, etc. but they want to find the right one. They want to know that there man is wanted by 100s of women and that after going to the trouble of learning about all of them, they chose the right one. If you come off as desperate or center your life upon them the moment you meet then it looks like you don't want her, you want any woman.

Not so. I once went two years without trying to get a woman, and you know what? Zilch. I found that they ignore men who treat them with ambivalence. Unless, of course, he's extraordinarily good-looking, wealthy or famous.

Every woman wants to be seen as special. Your not giving her that opportunity to.

Hmm, here I was thinking that by being romantic, I WAS trying to make her feel special. I now understand the folly of it all.

Sure she can have you but its a very hollow victory. The one that she wants is the one that challenges her. Do you play or watch sports? How would you feel if you trained for weeks for a big game and then the other team forfeits?

I'd go-home and celebrate with a gallon of beer. Just my way of thinking because I'm pragmatic. Why knock yourself out for a Pyrrhic victory?

Sure, you won but its a very empty victory. (Conversely, it's a victory after which you haven't had both your legs amputated due to the injuries that you've sustained along the way. -- NG) You feel much better when you have to work for it. The challenge is there. The other team is good. In the end you win on a last second shot. Thats a victory that you'll savor forever.By giving yourself up every woman so quickly, you ruin the opportunity for one woman to feel really special about winning you in the end.

Yeah, but I guess I've realized that for most men, winning her in the end is actually a booby-prize. It's a defeat wrapped within a victory.

You can still be nice and get women. Just don't be too accessible. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. What is your favorite song? Do you know the feeling that you get when you hear a song that you really like on the radio. It feels great to hear it. Now go buy that CD and force yourself to listen to it 200 times in a row. By the end, its nauseating and you just want it to go away. Well, that is exactly how women feel about guys showing them affection. They love to get it but only in small quantities.

*Writing notes* Roger. Withhold affection. Be cold. Distant. Uncaring. Insensitive. Women like that.

Next time you meet a girl that you like, don't call her immediately. Wait a couple of days.

Roger. Play games. Act like you don't care about her. Have secret agendas. Women like that.

When you take her out on the first few dates, be a perfect gentleman.

*Laff* but you just said... oh, never mind.

Let that come when you know that she is the right person. Realize off the bat that she is probably not the right person. Thats OK if she says it or you do. Just keep trying again.

Heh, there comes a time in a man's life when he says 'Fuck it.' Then, he eschews all his previously closely-held beliefs, climbs-up into a tower and raises the black flag. I'm at that heretical point, sir, and let me tell you: it feels *awesome*.

Don't commit yourself to anybody until you both realize its time to. Its not cheating to try out a couple of new ones at the same time. Don't lie and don't go into details but accept the fact that you are dating more than one at a time and so is she. When you have the right one, she'll let you know.

Yeah, yeah. You act like I *can* date more than one woman at once. I've never really enjoyed that luxury outside of Taiwan.

I used to be a friend/sucker but now women flock to me. I know they always say its not you its me, but trust me, dude, its you.

It's me? In some circumstances, perhaps. I'll be the first to suggest it. But in all circumstances? Arguably no.. if you ask the parents and sister of my Ex, they'll tell you that she is a pig-headed, selfish, deranged witch who clearly didn't deserve NiceGuy. In that particular instance, it was NOT me, sir. And when I look back with clear eyes, I see that it wasn't the only instance.

Thanks for writing, -- NG

(There you have it, folks, a self-proclaimed lady-killer advises that I mustn't treat women as well as I'd like to. He almost advocates a 'benign neglect' policy of sorts. Well, pity that I'm pretty-much done with this game as far as American ladies are concerned. When I get to Japan, of course, I intend to be myself. -- NG)

Betsy Writes:

I hate to admit it, but you are pretty much on target with what you write. I do have a few comments.

I really think the phenomenon of young women dating jerks goes both ways. Younger men seem to fall for bitchy women. When I was younger, around high school age, there were several nice guys I really liked. All of them were obsessed with girls who were bitches and didn't consider me suitable for dating. They seemed to think of me more like a sister. Maybe my lack of
>drama was boring, maybe I acted too much like one of the guys, I don't know what it was. I ended up dating jerks since they were the only men who paid attention to me at all. I was too young and stupid at the time to realize I'd be better off alone than with someone who wasn't kind.

Now that I'm a bit older, the only kind of man I would date is a nice one. (So basically, while my young female friends are having their jollies, all I have to do is wait a decade or two- until they get desperate enough to get married to a nice guy. By then, she'll be female wreckage. -- NG) You talk about all the women wanting nice guys after their children's father leaves, it's the same in reverse for men. I can't tell you how many men my age already have children and seem to be looking for a stepmother to watch them on weekends.

I'm not trying to be critical of your website, just want you to know it's not much easier for non-bitch women than it is for nice guys.

My Response...

Thanks for writing...

>I hate to admit it, but you are pretty much on target with what you write.

Well, I try to be. I don't make stuff UP. I'm glad that you at least understand where I'm coming from.

>I do have a few comments.

Fire-away. That's what I'm here for. You don't have to bring sunshine to my in-box to make me appreciate your letter.

>I really think the phenomenon of young women dating jerks goes both ways. Younger men seem to fall for bitchy women.

I agree.. I've done that many a time. It's not because I sought-out to find a bitch, either. I had this naïve idea that if I treated a woman nicely, she'd return the favor.

>When I was younger, around high school age, there were several nice guys I really liked. All of them were obsessed with girls who were bitches and didn't consider me suitable for dating. They seemed to think of me more like a sister. Maybe my lack of drama was boring, maybe I acted too much like one of the guys, I don't know what it was. I ended up dating jerks since they were the only men who paid attention to me at all. I was too young and stupid at the time to realize I'd be better off alone than with someone who wasn't kind.

Well, it's good that you've learned from past experiences.

>Now that I'm a bit older, the only kind of man I would date is a nice one.

Yeah, Shirley Moocher once told me "Don't feel bad, NiceGuy... women will really like you when you're 35..." Gee, thanks. What kind of solace is her statement supposed to be? Do I just go into hibernation for 10 years or something? She's spewing sugar-coated *tripe* at me.

>You talk about all the women wanting nice guys after their children's father leaves, it's the same in reverse for men. I can't tell you how many men my age already have children and seem to be looking for a stepmother to watch them on weekends.

Very interesting... most of the single dads I know have had their kids jealously spirited-away by their contemptful shrew of an ex-wife.

>I'm not trying to be critical of your website, just want you to know it's not much easier for non-bitch women than it is for nice guys.

Oh, be as critical as you want.

Thanks for writing... -- NG

AnotherNiceGuyinOregon Writes:

Hey Nice Guy,

You somehow put into words a lot of the thoughts I have most of the time. I truly enjoy reading things on this site. While I add I don't always agree with you, 99% of the time you are dead on perfect with your thoughts, analogies, and insights. Keep up the good work!

My Reply:

Thanks for dropping me a message... In hindsight, I look back at my behavior and say 'what was I thinking??'

Ahh well, hindsight is 20/20. Thanks for writing.. -- NG

(Very short, that one... But sometimes, short is just about right. -- NG)

Lyz Says:

Dear Nice Guy,
Your site was really insightful and absolutely cracked me up (at the appropriate moments of course). I didn't read all of the essays, but enough of them to know you are pretty mistreated. I thought for a moment that you are the man that I am kind of dating right now (who by the way I happen to treat very well thank you!), but I think it's safe to say you aren't. Interestingly enough, he claims to be a nice guy but the jury is still out.
Anyway, nice girls get mistreated too. I am educated, pretty, blah blah blah....but all it has brought is a lot of heartache. So
>in sum, you are not alone. Thank you for creating a site that lets me read about the other side, and thank you for being a nice guy. There aren't enough of you around.

My Reply:

Well, I really appreciate hearing from you, and I think you sound like a real sweetheart... I'm glad that I'm at least semi-entertaining, as I sometimes try to be. Glad I'm not wasting my efforts by churning-out unfunny cackleberries.

Mistreated? Feh, I suppose I don't differ from most guys in that regard. I largely try to shrug much of it off and get-on with my life.

And for God's sake, if your beau really DOES turn-out to be a genuine Nice Guy, PLEASE let him know that he's appreciated for who he is.

I hope you decide to come-back to visit in a few months.. I want people to see what happens when I treat women nicely in Japan.

Thanks for writing, -- NG

All this is good stuff... keep it coming!

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"An information sheet [on the event of Violence Against Women Awareness Day] assures us that "it isn't the style or substance of V-Day to bash anyone." But apart from this disclaimer, V-Day... appears dedicated to the proposition that women are from Venus and men are from hell." -- Christina Hoff Sommers, USA Today, 6/15/2001.

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