A Very Challenging Message to Respond to.

This was a very challenging message to respond to... mainly because the attack came from a most unexpected direction: from the point of view of a woman who says she is speaking for women who have a desire to be submissive and had a need for a paternalistic, commanding partner. (I can't say I've ever met one in real life). Honestly, I wasn't sure exactly how to respond because her criticism of me was highly counter-intuitive and unique and I wasn't sure if I understood all of her point of view. (For instance, I'd been raised to think that being a domineering male was wrong. In fact, for much of my life, I've been surrounded by women who'd said that they despised domineering males.) Nonetheless, she clearly doesn't like me, or males who want to treat women as equals. I dunno, she says she's speaking for a minority of women- I can't say I've ever met someone who was like her, yet she insists that I must have. And when I did meet women like her, I browbeat her in some horribly abusive way. In response to her assertation, I make a 'cuckoo' motion by sticking-out my tongue and swirling my pointer finger around my ear.

She's accusational, yet hyper-defensive at the same time. Personally, I think she's made a number of unwarranted conclusions. Shrug.

Reya writes:

Dear Not Very Nice Guy :(

I was very disappointed to encounter your website today. I haven't read it all, not by a longshot, but I've read enough to know certain things about you, the primary one being that you are not a very nice guy at all. You call yourself nice, but is it nice to virtually ignore all sides of an argument except your own _and_ the one you have invented for your enemy (wenstern women)? I don't think so.

I am a nice woman. I don't screw around with men. I don't give a shit about money or looks (can you say the same about the second?) or prestige in my partners.

I don't pretend to like them then reject them, if I feel incompatible with someone I try over and over again to resolve the issues and if it turns out to be something that neither of us can fix, I am honest and detailed about why and I _expect the same_(although I don't usually get it--most people, not-nice guy, not most women suck and are not worth a good person's time).

But I am one thing that you so-called "nice guys" never take into account in your derrogartory speeches about why women "reject" them. I am a deep, deep, did I say deep?, submissive-masochist. Niceness is fine in a partner in sparing amounts, but sexually, it does absolutely NOTHING for me. You may say I'm sick and wrong for feeling this way, but buddy I was BORN like this:
I have never known a conscious moment when I didn't feel this way and I can no more change my fundamental sexual orientation than you can change your "niceness" (actually, that's not quite true: becoming un-nice is incredibly easy to do--it's the path most people have taken in life and the path that you, sheep-like now seem to be following. (Baaaaaa!! -- NG) Wish you had remained true to yourself, but instead, while continuously proclaiming your niceness, you say some of the most cruel and vindicative things about my sex that I have ever read on any misogynist website. Also like most people, this suggests you've turned
hypocrite.) (Another woman who acts as if the word 'hypocrite' means that everything and anything I say is automatically null and void. Innit odd that women are allowed to be rampant hypocrites throughout life, yet I am not allowed to be a hypocrite on a much smaller scale and much less-often than a woman is? -- NG)

From your goodbye statement:

"I said to myself:: "American women are alienating me and my niceness because they're a bunch of shallow, unaccountable, self-absorbed little bitches. Women are a pack of hypocritical, vain liars who use a façade of innocent helplessness in order to expand their own privileges. They are whiny, entitlement-grubbing, jewel-encrusted, gossip-spreading mud. They suck. I've been spending my entire life trying to please them, yet they shit down my throat over and over. The women I've met overseas always seem to outclass them in so many ways." And when I said this, I really believed it."

I am nothing like the above. I _am_ completely emotionally vulnerable to my partner, and so are millions of other women like me (or who would be like me if they could find an understanding partner).

It is not a "façade of innocent helplessness." This façade you moan about is real in a significant minority of women who crave and need dominant, controlling partners, not just for sexual satisfaction (although this type of person is essential to their sexuality blossoming) but for emotional stability and deep happiness.

Perhaps you've run across one or two of my type before, and sneeringly rejected them for their "alleged" weakness. (Actually, I can't recall that I ever have. She spends the next few paragraphs insisting the contrary, however. -- NG)

But it is the opposite of weak to be true to yourself, to admit to yourself and to others (including blundering not-nice guys) who you really are, and to stand firm for what you need, not for what some bozo who egotistically thinks his personality is the greatest in the world, imagines you need (aka him).

I have met "nice guys" like you before who have shat all over submissive women, trying to make them feel bad for a permanent and very deep personality-sexual type that they cannot help.

You're as evil and wicked in what you do to these poor women as the redneck homosexual bashers are to gays. I can only begin to imagine the extent of emotional horror "nice" guys just like you have wreaked upon submissive women under the great flag of "they're evil and selfish for not liking me just the way I am!" I know it is huge however.

As a well know advocate and role-model for submissive women, I communicate constantly with submissives and have talked to several thousand in my life and the number who have been through your sort of "nice-guy" emotional torture chamber and lynching process is astounding. You deman us and hate us simply because we can't get it up for you.

Well guess what? Not everybody can "get it up" for every person on earth! Until you can say to me honestly that you find an 80-year old 300 pound woman with rotten teeth and a foul, cheesy smell asattractive to you as a 20-something asian babe, I say HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN THAT SUBMISSIVE WOMEN DO NOT FIND YOUR SORT PERSONALITY SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE? (Perhaps this criticism would be a bit more meaningful if she wasn't the type of woman who expects the man to be the one to make all the initiating steps for relationships. Only if women shouldered half the burden of creating relationships could she fairly criticise me. I say, how dare women shirk the responsibility of initiating relationships, pushing all the required unpleasant work onto men! And how dare women reject men and yet act so damn shocked whenever men have the audacity to display the unpleasant emotions which accompany rejection! -- NG)

Glass houses and stones, remember? We all have a right to pursue that which will bring us happiness and conversely, not to put up with that which will make us miserable just to try to please some "nice guy" who thinks he's god's gift to every single woman. (The fact that some people's happiness derives from a man shouldering all the burdens of life does complicate things a bit for her man, however. -- NG)

You have that right and clearly take it, so why do you deny it to women? (Because women typically aren't the ones who try to initiate relationships. If they won't take the opening steps, then I have to! DUH! I don't deny that same right to women, I only demand that they not shirk or abuse it. -- NG) Could it be you don't really think we're genuine humans with the right to our own feelings and decisions? That's the strong feeling I get from your webpage. :( (No, I think women are genuine humans. Genuine humans who behave genuinely badly and then try to escape responsibility for their bad behavior. They are genuine humans who do a million genuinely bad things. -- NG)

Speaking of Asians, you speak of thme in your goodbye rant:

"This will be a great opportunity to run a grand experiment: I'm going to go to Planet Japan and... be myself. That's right, I'm going to be the nice, caring, respectful (yet slightly geeky) NiceGuy that I normally am and we'll see how many women get attracted to me. If women want to go on dates with me, then I'll treat them nicely and respectfully. I am NOT going to be a jerk; I am NOT going to take advantage of the women there. I am NOT going to be a womanizer. I am going to be a gentleman par excellence. So, let's all see what happens, shall we? In fact, part of me wants to bet that at least 50% of the women I'll meet will totally blow American chicks out of the water! I'm not a betting man, however."

There will be a few women in Japan who will appreciate the sort of person that you are, but your "grass is always greener" stance in regards to Asian women is hopelessly naieve. (She says this with such self-assured conviction, as I've never been outside the country. I've actually lived in Taiwan, and I have experienced first-hand that many of the women there actually seem to return respect and kindness when it is given. When you show kindness and respect to an American woman, she'll interpret it as a sign of weakness. -- NG)

Yes, the Japanese are a very polite society, and you will be treated with politeness there. But much moreso than in the US, a huge minority of women in that country are deeply submissive. (Stereotype alert! Most Asian women I've met have not been submissive once I got to know them! The 'submissive Asian doll' stereotype is an ugly myth and it pisses me off to see this kind of ignorance. Plenty of Asian women thrive in very aggressively competitive professions; that's not something that a submissive milquetoast can be expected to do. They have largely been very strong-minded and independent individuals who don't take crap lying down. And anyone who has ever spent time in a typical Japanese home will tell you the mother clearly wields a huge amount of power over the husband, kids and family budget. I think the main error that Americans make when stereotyping Asian women is that Americans often interpret the lack of overt bitchiness as equivalent to being 'submissive'. -- NG)

Such women will politely date you and thank you for the "nice time" buy you'll find--as you've found here with the western submissives you and your ilk love to trample on in the name of your own selfish egos (Huh? I'm selfish because I don't like many aspects of female behavior? I'm selfish because I'd like reciprocity in a relationship? Or maybe this is one of those situations where I'm wrong no matter what I say or do? -- NG) --they when push comes to shove they just do not find you sexually amorous. They won't say it as directly and honestly to you as I am saying it here, of course, as politeness always involves considerable lying, but it will be the underlying truth. (She acts like I haven't reached this conclusion about politeness on my own. So... this woman predicts that women in Japan will not find me sexually attractive. We'll just have to see how that turns-out: Haruna? Fumiyo? They must be freaks. -- NG) And you will bash those poor girls around emotionally I imagine just as you've probably bashed my submissive sisters for simply being who they are. (Ahh yes. I must be an abuser of women. That's me to a tee. -- NG)

We all got a right to live and be ourselves, buddy. (But not me, apparently. I'm no better than a raving homophobe, according to her. -- NG) The real trick in live, love and intimacy is finding someone who can and will accept us just as we are, unconditionally. Everybody in life except for a lucky few--not just the poor downtrodden not-so-nice guys-- finds this a very difficult and lengthy endeaver. It took tweleve years, and I would have been willing to let it take twice or three times as long if necessary. I didn't go around whining and complaining because men didn't like a submisisve women, although the hard cold truth is most conventional men despise me and my sisters and are deeply afraid of our intense needs for control and emotional intimacy. (I think 'despise' is a little strong. I think it's fairer to say that society hates men who are domineering. You know what? I'll stop interjecting my commentary until you get to my response section... -- NG)

I'd take you and your writings a lot more seriously if you could mature enough to see that your expectations about women (that we all should adore guys who are _just_ like you) are egotistically preposterous.

"I'd always thought something along those lines when I got frustrated with girls, but I never actually thought it with any conviction. I never wanted to believe it. I always thought there was some good in women. But, why was I always feeling screwed-over for some reason? There couldn't be something wrong with the entire gender, could there? No, no... there had to be something wrong with me. Maybe I had to be an even Nicer Guy?"

There is a huge amount of good in women. Submissive women in particular are some of the most self-sacrificing, loyal, kind, generous, open hearted and open-minded people on this planet. Unfortunately, they can only give these gifts to a man who is nice to them in the unique and secret ways that they understand and intepret as love. I feel sorrow for my submissive Asian sisters that they are soon going to have to put up with yet another conventional man: a man who thinks that just because they are nice to him and polite and deeply sweet and cute that they should find equally positive traits in him.

(Do you also imagine that because you find a goregeous actress attractive that she should automatically fall on her knees in front of you and are you peeved when she doesn't? Don't you see that this sort of ridiculous exaggerated expectation is virtually identical to the ones you place you describe on your website for evil, bad Western women?

You are in effect saying to all of us, "because I am attracted to you, YOU OWE ME BITCH to like me back equally well." Bullshit, Junior. Nobody owes you anything in this life. If you want the really good things in life you either have to be extremely lucky or do what I and all the other deserving people of the world have done: earn it.

Although much of what you say about certain types of women on your site is true, your tendency to generalise these traits to all women is extremely evil and duplicitous, not-nice guy, and I don't see you earning anything with this dishonest stance.)

Well, unfortunately these poor Asian women need what they need, and they cannot help it and, if they are the least bit smart, they won't bend over backward trying to be a completely different person with completely different needs just because someone like you pats them on the head and tells them he's hot for them!

This is the core of your argument I believe, the emmus for you is that if you are hot for a woman or romantically attracted to her, she owes it to you to be romantically attracted back or she is an evil money grubbing selfish superficial petty Western woman. Isn't that correct?

I think what made her most angry was me over-generalizing, as well as me suggesting that the characters' of American women are deeply flawed (how dare I!) Anyways, it was very interesting to see her point of view, because it is quite unique. She likes domineering men, which is fine... only problem is, society isn't quite so kind to males who grow-up thinking 'I want to be domineering.'

By the way, most of her questions seem to be rhetorical, therefore she never really expected direct answers from me.

My Response is as Follows:

Thank you for writing...

>Dear Not Very Nice Guy :(

Ah, so you've picked-up on my ongoing metamorphosis! Ten points for you, then...

>I was very disappointed to encounter your website
>today. I haven't read it all, not by a longshot, but
>I've read enough to know certain things about you, the
>primary one being that you are not a very nice guy at
>all.

I think it's more accurate that I'm the advanced stages of making the transition into cynical, not-so-nice territory. There IS still some nice in me, I've been told, so it's not too late. Naturally, you have trouble seeing any good in me at all.

You know what might be a more fair statement? It's that I'm more directly attacking broad aspects of typical female behavior patterns... Sort of a hate-the-sin, love-the-sinner thing.

I think it's also important for me to start-out by stating two fundamental points that I'm not sure you understand:

1: I don't consider myself to be God's gift to women. Hardly. Never once in my life have I ever believed that. I'm merely someone who wants to see women treated in such a way that would be generally-accepted by society as 'decently'. *Shrug* perhaps you have an issue with how society defines 'decently', however.
2: I'm not after a submissive woman. I wouldn't enjoy that sort of relationship.

>You call yourself nice, but is it nice to
>virtually ignore all sides of an argument except your
>own _and_ the one you have invented for your enemy
>(wenstern women)? I don't think so.

Yes it's much "Nicer" for me to unquestioningly and wordlessly tolerate a woman's behavior, I suppose. At the same time, it's also not quite so nice for women to assume that me and my gender must be outfoxed at every turn because we're one step above beasts of the barnyard. *Shrug* Women aren't SUPPOSED to feel that way, yet many admit that they do.

What can I say in my defence? My opinions are based on experience. I started-out the dating game with as little prejudice as humanly possible and gradually built my present opinions over the years. I can't say I've ever met a woman who's told me up-front that she wanted to be dominated. And if she won't admit to wanting to be dominated: men can't hear what women don't say. Men can't openly seek to be domineering: society shits on them for that.

>I am a nice woman. I don't screw around with men. I
>don't give a shit about money or looks (can you say
>the same about the second?) or prestige in my
>partners.

Oh, I might be very superficial but it's so hard for me to tell... I get that criticism quite a lot and you've just put me in a position where it's damnably hard for ANYONE to plausibly deny that sort of accusation without immediately appearing suspect. I know the value of not basing my opinions soley on appearance, and I myself don't like it when people base their opinions of me on my appearance. There have been plenty of women who I've met that have become more attractive as they've revealed more of their personalities and characters to me. Therein lies true beauty.
But you also suppose that human beings aren't normally superficial because you see yourself as not being superficial. But humans *are* superficial, like it or not. We have very well-evolved optics and physiological responses to the right visual cues. If I were to put romaine lettuce, grated parmesan cheese and croutons in a bowl, drizzle the whole thing with Caesar dressing and place it in front of you, your mouth might very-well start to water from the sight of it.
Like it or not, being reactive to visual stimuli is hard-wired into our species so everyone is at least a LITTLE superficial. Even if they themselves don't care to admit it.

>I don't pretend to like them then reject
>them, if I feel incompatible with someone I try over
>and over again to resolve the issues and if it turns
>out to be something that neither of us can fix, I am
>honest and detailed about why and I _expect the same_
>(although I don't usually get it--most people,
>not-nice guy, not most women suck and are not worth a
>good person's time).

I agree with you there wholeheartedly...

>But I am one thing that you so-called "nice guys"
>never take into account in your derrogartory speeches
>about why women "reject" them. I am a deep, deep, did
>I say deep?, submissive-masochist. Niceness is fine
>in a partner in sparing amounts, but sexually, it does
>absolutely NOTHING for me. You may say I'm sick and
>wrong for feeling this way, but buddy I was BORN like
>this:

No, I don't think you're sick. On the contrary: you obviously seem very comfortable with who you are, and that's commendable. Your sexual preferences are perfectly valid as far as I can see. And I'm not going to draw any untoward conclusions about you based soley on that... but I think it's fair to say that you've incorrectly reached the conclusion that I'd find a submissive woman desirable as a partner. In fact, the vast majority of women I've met over the years have given painfully emphatic lip-service that they want to be treated as equals, yet then ask for special exceptions to equality. That bugs me and many men.

>I have never known a conscious moment when I
>didn't feel this way and I can no more change my
>fundamental sexual orientation than you can change
>your "niceness" (actually, that's not quite true:
>becoming un-nice is incredibly easy to do--it's the
>path most people have taken in life and the path that
>you, sheep-like now seem to be following. Wish you
>had remained true to yourself, but instead, while
>continuously proclaiming your niceness, you say some
>of the most cruel and vindicative things about my sex
>that I have ever read on any misogynist website. Also
>like most people, this suggests you've turned
>hypocrite.)

Hmm... hypocrite? I hope not. When someone's words don't match their actions, their words are false and their actions are true. I've been told by a wide variety of people that my actions are those of a Nice Guy. I've been described by many as posessing tenderness, compassion, generosity, and a good sense of justice (one hopes that you don't reject this assertion based entirely on some of my disorganized ramblings). Naturally, I'm using my web-page as a forum in which to vent my frustrations, so you haven't been given a chance to appreciate all facets of my real-life persona...

Or if I AM indeed a hypocrite, perhaps my behavior is merely a very SANE reaction to the inherent lunacy of female behavior? There's no hypocrisy in gradually discarding principles which have clearly not worked. In fact, it's pragmatic to do so.
It's been said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. In this case, being nice to women has obviously not worked, and I'm slowly learning to abandon this... this folly. Hence, I don't seem like a true Nice Guy to you. Nice Guys aren't known for criticizing people's behavior; regardless of however valid and well-warranted the criticism might be.

>From your goodbye statement:
>
>"I said to myself:: "American women are alienating me
>and my niceness because they're a bunch of shallow,
>unaccountable, self-absorbed little bitches. Women are
>a pack of hypocritical, vain liars who use a façade of
>innocent helplessness in order to expand their own
>privileges. They are whiny, entitlement-grubbing,
>jewel-encrusted, gossip-spreading mud. They suck. I've
>been spending my entire life trying to please them,
>yet they shit down my throat over and over. The women
>I've met overseas always seem to outclass them in so
>many ways." And when I said this, I really believed
>it."
>
>I am nothing like the above. I _am_ completely
>emotionally vulnerable to my partner, and so are
>millions of other women like me (or who would be like
>me if they could find an understanding partner).

I'm sure there are... but they're largely not attracted to guys who treat them well. I'm sure many women would agree with me on this point. And that point irritates me greatly.

> It is not a "façade of innocent helplessness." This façade
>you moan about is real in a significant minority of
>women who crave and need dominant, controlling
>partners, not just for sexual satisfaction (although
>this type of person is essential to their sexuality
>blossoming) but for emotional stability and deep
>happiness.

I don't know if we're talking about the same thing here... I'm not referring to women who are submissive in a relationship, I'm referring to women who moan that because we live in a 'male dominated world' men have to somehow work harder to elevate women... while ignoring the subtle ways in which women dominate men. Males must shoulder all the burdens, do all the work, etc. I'm referring to those who claim that women are decent angels who are oppressed by wicked monsters and need more social, legal and economic entitlements just to even things-up. That is what I meant by façade of innocent helplessness.

If you ARE referring to social helplessness, I'm not sure how it relates to a deep-seated need for dominant, controlling partners at all. If that is the case, then you obviously don't want equality in society- you want all the social responsibilities, burdens and hazards piled onto males, and most people wouldn't think that's fair to the male half of the planet. No matter how much pleasure or happiness it would give you.

> Perhaps you've run across one or two of my
>type before, and sneeringly rejected them for their
>"alleged" weakness.

Oh, I've never run-across one or two of your "type" before... and I've rarely been doing the rejecting. I normally get rejected. Is it fair to insist that all females find me attractive? Certainly not. But it *is* fair for me to insist that my partner not exploit the inequalities that are said to work against them.

>But it is the opposite of weak to
>be true to yourself, to admit to yourself and to
>others (including blundering not-nice guys) who you
>really are, and to stand firm for what you need, not
>for what some bozo who egotistically thinks his
>personality is the greatest in the world, imagines you
> need (aka him).

No where do I ever suggest that my personality is the greatest in the world. I've never thought that.

> I have met "nice guys" like you
>before who have shat all over submissive women, trying
>to make them feel bad for a permanent and very deep
>personality-sexual type that they cannot help.

Hmm, to tell you the truth, I can't say I've met too many women who are like the kind you describe... or if I have, I didn't realize it at the time. All my life, I listen to women who insist "i want equality". I can't listen to a submissive woman who doesn't stand-up and say "I don't want equality, I want to be dominated". I've never RECEIVED that clear a message from ANY woman. If she'd expected me to read her mind and go-against everything that males in modern society have had drilled into their heads, then of course she'll be sorely disappointed by how I'll treat her.

I want to see women treated decently. I want to see women healthy and free to pursue happiness. (Yet I don't want to to dominate her life. I'd been brought-up to believe that dominating behavior was unacceptible for males.) I actively try to make this happen whenever I try to have a relationship with a woman. I have very strong convictions for this, and if a woman needs a dominant, controlling partner in her life, then I'm clearly not the one for her.

>You're as evil and wicked in what you do to these poor women
>as the redneck homosexual bashers are to gays. I can
>only begin to imagine the extent of emotional horror
>"nice" guys just like you have wreaked upon submissive
>women under the great flag of "they're evil and
>selfish for not liking me just the way I am!" I know
>it is huge however.

I think you misunderstood my words, to tell you the truth... are you saying that I *should* make an effort to dominate women? That goes against everything that I was taught growing-up... I was taught that women were unfairly oppressed and wanted equality. *Shrug* I guess I'm wrong by whatver I do, eh?

> As a well know advocate and
>role-model for submissive women, I communicate
>constantly with submissives and have talked to several
>thousand in my life and the number who have been
>through your sort of "nice-guy" emotional torture
>chamber and lynching process is astounding. You deman
>us and hate us simply because we can't get it up for
>you.

Hmm, no, I'm not talking about finding a submissive woman. I would get no pleasure from having my woman be submissive to me. I think you've horribly misunderstood my words. I'm not after a submissive, fer crying out loud.

I have to say, I've read and re-read your message, and I'm doing my best to understand what you're saying. So far I think you've been saying the following: a huge number of women need to feel dominated by men and it's torture to deny them the pleasure of being dominated... well guess what? ANY male who EVER says that-out loud would be publicly pilloried and have eggs thrown-at him. NO male can EVER say that without being castigated and shouted-down. What you're saying is not easy for *any* male to accept, because males get punished by society for even thinking it.

> Well guess what? Not everybody can "get it up"
>for every person on earth! Until you can say to me
>honestly that you find an 80-year old 300 pound woman
>with rotten teeth and a foul, cheesy smell as
>attractive to you as a 20-something asian babe, I say
>HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN THAT SUBMISSIVE WOMEN DO NOT
>FIND YOUR SORT PERSONALITY SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE?

If it's all the same to you, I'm not after a submissive woman.

> Glass houses and stones, remember? We all have a right to
>pursue that which will bring us happiness and
>conversely, not to put up with that which will make us
>miserable just to try to please some "nice guy" who
>thinks he's god's gift to every single woman.

Oh, I'm certanily not god's gift to women. No where do I make that suggestion... I merely boast that I have a strong desire to treat women in such a way that wouldn't be considered assholish.

>You have
>that right and clearly take it, so why do you deny it
>to women? Could it be you don't really think we're
>genuine humans with the right to our own feelings and
>decisions? That's the strong feeling I get from your
>webpage. :(

Not at all.
With my upbringing, I've been socialized to believe that women don't want to have a dominanting partner in their lives. I'd always sincerely believed that women wanted someone who they could be with, without playing personal-power issues. I guess some women DO want that, but society doesn't encourage most males to actively do it. And as I said before, males aren't allowed to say anything that deviates from that line without being considered chauvinist pigs. I'm sorry, that's just the way society sees it. I'd always been made to feel bad for suggesting that women might EVER want to be dominated.

>Speaking of Asians, you speak of thme in your goodbye
>rant:
>
>"This will be a great opportunity to run a grand
>experiment: I'm going to go to Planet Japan and... be
>myself. That's right, I'm going to be the nice,
>caring, respectful (yet slightly geeky) NiceGuy that I
>normally am and we'll see how many women get attracted
>to me. If women want to go on dates with me, then I'll
>treat them nicely and respectfully. I am NOT going to
>be a jerk; I am NOT going to take advantage of the
>women there. I am NOT going to be a womanizer. I am
>going to be a gentleman par excellence. So, let's all
>see what happens, shall we? In fact, part of me wants
>to bet that at least 50% of the women I'll meet will
>totally blow American chicks out of the water! (I'm
>not a betting man, however.)"
>
>There will be a few women in Japan who will appreciate
>the sort of person that you are, but your "grass is
>always greener" stance in regards to Asian women is
>hopelessly naieve.

Hmm, not "grass is always greener", I'm simply saying the grass might not be so BROWN. And plenty of foreigners have said many wonderful things about life and society in Japan... Portuguese missionaries back in the 1590s said glowing things about it, too.

>Yes, the Japanese are a very polite
>society, and you will be treated with politeness
>there. But much moreso than in the US, a huge minority
>of women in that country are deeply submissive.

I'd have to disagree. Japanese women are polite but largely NOT submissive- many that I've met would take offense at your suggestion. They are largely very strong-willed people who form the foundation for a most remarkable and resiliant family system.

>Such
>women will politely date you and thank you for the
>"nice time" buy you'll find--as you've found here with
>the western submissives you and your ilk love to
>trample on in the name of your own selfish egos--they
>when push comes to shove they just do not find you
>sexually amorous. They won't say it as directly and
>honestly to you as I am saying it here, of course, as
>politeness always involves considerable lying, but it
>will be the underlying truth. And you will bash those
>poor girls around emotionally I imagine just as you've
>probably bashed my submissive sisters for simply being
>who they are.

Look, I respect your sexual preferences, but I'm not after a woman who will do everything I tell her to. I'm also not seeking a woman who will demand that I meet all of her needs and will not so much as lift a finger to meet the simplest of my needs. I'm looking for a woman who will return kindness for kindness and return decency for decency. I don't want to be domineering; I'd been socialized to think it was wrong.

>We all got a right to live and be ourselves, buddy.
>The real trick in live, love and intimacy is finding
>someone who can and will accept us just as we are,
>unconditionally. Everybody in life except for a lucky
>few--not just the poor downtrodden not-so-nice guys--
>finds this a very difficult and lengthy endeaver. It
>took tweleve years, and I would have been willing to
>let it take twice or three times as long if necessary.
>I didn't go around whining and complaining because men
>didn't like a submisisve women, although the hard cold
>truth is most conventional men despise me and my
>sisters and are deeply afraid of our intense needs for
>control and emotional intimacy.

Well, I'm sure your experiences are compelling, but American society increasingly criticizes males and tries to make them feel ashamed for wanting to feel domineering.

>I'd take you and your
>writings a lot more seriously if you could mature
>enough to see that your expectations about women (that
>we all should adore guys who are _just_ like you) are
>egotistically preposterous.

I find it preposterous that women actively pursue men who don't treat them with dignity... that has been within my core message. It always has been. And as I said before: I'm not after a submissive woman. I'm not after a woman who wishes me to be the dominant partner. I think you overplay your hand by insisting throughout your entire email that I've been rejecting women for perceived 'weaknesses' when I've done very little rejecting in my life.

>"I'd always thought something along those lines when I
>got frustrated with girls, but I never actually
>thought it with any conviction. I never wanted to
>believe it. I always thought there was some good in
>women. But, why was I always feeling screwed-over for
>some reason? There couldn't be something wrong with
>the entire gender, could there? No, no... there had to
>be something wrong with me. Maybe I had to be an even
>Nicer Guy?"
>
>There is a huge amount of good in women. Submissive
>women in particular are some of the most
>self-sacrificing, loyal, kind, generous, open hearted
>and open-minded people on this planet. Unfortunately,
>they can only give these gifts to a man who is nice to
>them in the unique and secret ways that they
>understand and intepret as love. I feel sorrow for my
>submissive Asian sisters that they are soon going to
>have to put up with yet another conventional man: a
>man who thinks that just because they are nice to him
>and polite and deeply sweet and cute that they should
>find equally positive traits in him.

No. Just a woman who doesn't exploit me or doesn't regard me as an adversary.

>(Do you also
>imagine that because you find a goregeous actress
>attractive that she should automatically fall on her
>knees in front of you and are you peeved when she
>doesn't? Don't you see that this sort of ridiculous
>exaggerated expectation is virtually identical to the
>ones you place you describe on your website for evil,
>bad Western women?

No, I think what you've done is taken my argument to an extreme and then attacked the extreme. (Taking this tactic is called a "straw-man" argument and it is a very, very weak technique once you recognize it for what it is. -- NG) I AM realistic in my goals. I don't insist that EVERY woman find me attractive, I just insist that women stop pursuing men who make them unhappy under the belief that the male will somehow magically want to stop making them unhappy one day.

>You are in effect saying to all of
>us, "because I am attracted to you, YOU OWE ME BITCH
>to like me back equally well." Bullshit, Junior.
>Nobody owes you anything in this life. If you want
>the really good things in life you either have to be
>extremely lucky or do what I and all the other
>deserving people of the world have done: earn it.

I see. I'm not deserving of good things. Well, I can only give as good as I get. Outside the I-net, I've been told I treat women pretty darn well. You don't see it, however, because you haven't met me.

>Although much of what you say about certain types of
>women on your site is true, your tendency to
>generalise these traits to all women is extremely evil
>and duplicitous, not-nice guy, and I don't see you
>earning anything with this dishonest stance.)

Hmm... perhaps I generalize too much. I get a lot of criticism for it, and I feel rightly chastised for it. Thank you for saying so. I'm working to rectify that.

>Well,
>unfortunately these poor asian women need what they
>need, and they cannot help it and, if they are the
>least bit smart, they won't bend over backward trying
>to be a completely different person with completely
>different needs just because someone like you pats
>them on the head and tells them he's hot for them!

If you're saying that Asian women are typically submissive, then I'll have to strongly disagree. That goes-against all of my experiences over there. An astounding number of Asian women would take offense at your suggestion.

>This is the core of your argument I believe, the emmus
>for you is that if you are hot for a woman or
>romantically attracted to her, she owes it to you to
>be romantically attracted back or she is an evil money
>grubbing selfish superficial petty Western woman.
>Isn't that correct?

Hmm, not at all. If a woman isn't romantically attracted to me, she shouldn't wrap it in sugar-flavored crap like "you're so NICE" or "you're such a good FRIEND I don't want to ruin our friendship." She should be up-front and honest with me and say: "I think you're not a big-enough asshole to be my boyfriend. It's much more gainful for me to put you in a position where I can exploit you for favors and junkets without having sex or deep emotional involvement with you at all." If she would ever admit that, I'd accept that rejection and at least know where I stand. There's no sense in her dancing-around the obvious. It would be MUCH less disingenuous if she'd ever come-out and just say: "You're nice, and I only sleep with total bastards." That's a rejection which is both honest and accurate. Why is that so hard for women to do? Because largely, they aren't as great as they pretend to be.

Thank you very much for writing such a passionate and well thought-out message. I think it's fair to say: I don't want to be domineering. Most women I've met have told me that they don't want a domineering man in their life. You obviously belong to a group who do... in that case, you are right: a submissive woman ISN'T a good match for me. I wouldn't get much pleasure out of that sort of relationship. -- NG

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"By adding a pig's head to your composite man, you increased his I.Q. at least 20 points." Letter to Time Magazine, referring to an illustration in which a pig's head was grafted onto the body of man. March 7, 1994.

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